Prop 8 was largely won by out-of-state money and door to door soldiers from the Mormon church.  Please go to
http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/#petition as part of a grassroots effort to get the Mormon (LDS) church tax exempt status revoked.  I hate that Prop 8 passed, hate that my son cried and asked if we could no longer live as a family, and while taking this effort is not satisfying enough, it is a start.  “Follow the money” was the phrase in “All the President’s Men” which led to the downfall of corruption - let’s all do the same here.  The Mormon church’s activities, often underhanded, must be understood, must be stopped.  Taking away their tax exempt status is the first step - if they’re largely responsible for spreading the lies, the least we can do is spread the truth.

Black people voted as they did for two reasons.  Number 1: the “NO” proponents failed.  They did not target the Black community while the “YES” people did.  Number 2: Black people are a subgroup of the bible belt south.  Most Blacks in California are one generation removed from Louisiana and Texas.  Black American culture is a blend of Scots-Irish Protestant and African. Blacks are actually more liberal then other groups that come from the same cultural geographic region.  Perhaps focusing on religion and tolerance would be a more fruitful exercise.  I thought people voted for Obama because he was the most qualified.

As a supporter of Proposition 8, I would like to offer the main reason for my decision.  I believe that prop. 8 is a civil rights issue.  Specifically, I believe that it seeks to limit the ability of the state to create laws or judgments that reduce the civil liberties of conservative religious entities and individuals.  In North Coast Care Medical Group v. Superior Court (Benitez, Real
Party In Interest)
The California Supreme Court reiterated the U.S. Supreme Court’s stance that “a law that is neutral and of general applicability
need not be justified by a compelling governmental interest even if the law has the
incidental effect of burdening a particular religious practice.”

Because marriage has been defined in the context of a religious background and because the laws surrounding marriage were designed to accommodate this background, a redefinition of marriage will lead to numerous cases of laws suddenly having the incidental effect of burdening religious practice.

For lack of space, I relate only one case out of the many I have read in support of this thesis.  After the legalization of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts, schools complied with the new definition by including same-sex materials in their curriculum.  Concerned parents sued that they be notified and have the right to remove their child from such instruction.  In dismissing the case, Judge Mark A. Wolf stated, “It is reasonable for public educators to teach elementary school students about individuals with different sexual orientations and about various forms of families, including those with same-sex parents...” Judge Wolf goes on and mentions that allowing religious students to opt out of such instruction could cause children of same sex couples to feel that they are inferior and cites Brown vs Board of Education in support of this idea.  While this statement may be correct, the reverse is also true:  Religious families as students have apparently felt that their beliefs were being treated as inferior under the new curricula.

While I believe that homosexual individuals have the right to fair and equal treatment under the law, my personal belief is that the legalization of same-sex marriage would result in a significant decline in the civil rights of religious individuals. 

References
Califonia Supreme Court Ruling:  http://www.faith-freedom.com/files/Opinion_08_18_08.pdf
Judge Wolf’s dismissal: http://www.massresistance.org/docs/parker_lawsuit/motion_to_dismiss_2007/order_motion_to_dismiss_022307.pdf

I find it funny that people always are against “the men in black robes going against the majority” When the same thing happened with interracial marriage. If it wasn’t for “those men in black robes,” we might not have had interracial marriage and the outlawing of separate but equal segregation. Majority were against it at the time, the courts overruled the will of the people. People didn’t want interracial marriage. Some went as far as saying “God didn’t intend for a whites and black to marry” See the similar trend? Bible has been misused for centuries to oppress a certain group, misinterpreted.

Seeing some of the things here, i think it comes from the misunderstanding that being gay is a choice. Most people would find this laughable, but some just aren’t informed to know that you can’t choose your sexuality and sexual attraction. Will tackle this next post.

Now within the group of people that think being gay is a choice, they fall in 2 groups.

Group 1: The bigots, who try to find any excuse to condone their discrimination.

Group 2: People who actually are good people, but not informed or know enough about gay people, and thus still think its a choice.

I am speaking to group 2 here. Group 1 are bigots that will never change their mind, but that generation will die out like the racist generations. Group 2 read on.

-Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice
-Most gay people will tell you its not a choice
-Common sense will tell you its not a choice

Ok, im going to address this next paragraph assuming you are male. If you are female, reverse the questions and answer them.

When you see a naked woman, it goes up right? Now how about when you see a naked man? Does your pulse raise in the same way? Are you enjoying it? Do you go up? Do you feel urges in the same way? Do men turn you on emotionally and sexually? Would you be able to enjoy sex with a man? Do you find men sexually attractive? Could you be happy sexually with a man for the rest of your life? If you are heterosexual, the answer should be no. Otherwise, you might either be bi-sexual or homosexual, and should might want to re-evaluate your sexuality. Most people know this is not a choice. I know a few gay people who went to a straight club when they were figuring out their sexuality, where naked women putting their bodies all over them, giving them naked lap dances, not once they could get it up or aroused. But just the picture of a naked guy gets them up easily. Tell me thats choice. Also, why would a gay person, knowing that you will have a rough time in society, knowing that you cant get married unless you live in certain places, knowing that people will pick on you for it, knowing that your closest friends and families might completely turn their back on you, choose to be gay, if they could easily be satisfied by the opposite sex? Simple logic there.

While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
Gay, Straight Men’s Brain Responses Differ
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html

And it might also be noted that:
“It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organisations do believe it is impossible to change a person’s sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association.”

The only ones who have a true choice are bi-sexuals, they get the best of both worlds.

I have no problem with gays being gays. I just have a problem with them imposing their beliefs on me. They are such intolerant bigots. Just because I hold to conservative viewpoint. What happened to America be a melting pot. I thought this was a constitution for all the people not just a certain group. I am sorry Shadow man but Marriage was not the gays idea nor the states idea. The state only got involved in recoring marriages as a result of the income tax act of 1913.
Joint filing of income tax returns mandated governement records of marriages. If not for that marriage would not even be on the table. It would have remained a religious institution and churches that wanted to hand out marriage certificates to anyone could have. You can thank your government for making marriage a social issue instead of a church issue.
It is not Ok for you to step in and mandate that the definition of what marriage represents be changed to suit you.
The laws for civil unions already provide same sex couples with all the rights married couples have so this not about rights its about Gays wanting to take over the public arena, by crying unfair treatment. Your wrong!

Two things.

1. Through out history, marriage is the corner stone of continuation of mankind. If this duty is not honored, it is not a marriage. Don’t confuse sexuality with marriage.

2. I don’t call people names just because I don’t agree with them.

What you (just like many others) miss is that there is no comparison between the two fights for civil rights. No one is comparing them, though I am sure in certain respects they had similarities. The point of “separate-but-equal” is that the legal/philosophical/etc. premise is exactly the same - there can be an equal institution that is separate. And this is what many blacks have bought into as well. Why? Well, I won’t pretend to know why they bought into it. But the facts are clear - they have.

first of all shadow man- afraid to give your real name? anyway- i know several former homosexuals that have turned from their “gay” ways and have become straight. in some churches there is a program to help gays become straight and turn away from their sinful ways. so i believe it is a choice that one person makes.

I am upset about this erroneous finger pointing at African-Americans regarding Proposition 8.  Why are you so quick to believe whatever you hear?  If someone told me 70 percent of gay people voted against Obama my first thought would be, excuse me Jesus, that is crap! I don’t believe it!  This political year was fraught with right wing lies. Bear that in mind.

“Religious organizations that support Proposition 8 include the Roman Catholic Church], Knights of Columbus, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) a group of Evangelical Christians led by Jim Garlow and Miles McPherson, American Family Association, Focus on the Family[and the National Organization for Marriage Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, California’s largest, has also endorsed the measure. The Bishops of the California Catholic Conference released a statement supporting the proposition. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) has publicly supported the proposition and encouraged their membership to support it, by asking its members to donate money and volunteer time. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter read in every congregation. Latter-day Saints have provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California. About 45% of out-of-state contributions to Protect Marriage.com has come from Utah, over three times more than any other state.”

Still, even though gays were fighting to preserve a basic right, it was the anti-equality side in California that seemed to have the most fervor. A symbolic low point for the gay side came on Oct. 13, when the Sacramento Bee ran a remarkable story about Rick and Pam Patterson, a Mormon couple of modest means - he drives a 10-year-old Honda Civic, she raises their five boys - who had withdrawn $50,000 from their savings account and given it to the pro-8 campaign. “It was a decision we made very prayerfully,” Pam Patterson, 48, told the Bee’s Jennifer Garza. “Was it an easy decision? No. But it was a clear decision, one that had so much potential to benefit our children and their children.”

This is your real enemy. Don’t trust exit polls. I think they are pitting one group against the other. African-Americans are less than 7% of the state population, do the math.  Many more Whites voted and they put this over, not Blacks. What are the total numbers of each group that voted. Someone dug into the data and found that we’re just now learning is that the exit poll was based on less than 2,300 people. If you take into account that blacks in California only make up about 6.2%, we get roughly 224 blacks who were polled. 224 blacks to blame an entire race! The original percentage of black voters who were expected to say yes to Prop 8 was only around 52-58%. Anytime you get a vote that much higher over the projected vote, something went wrong. 

I know someone who watches C-Span and they said most Blacks did not even address the question at all. And they do not have the money to fund a tens of millions of dollars Proposition 8 campaign. Note that they also targeted affirmative action for eradication in another state.

I cannot believe that these groups get a pass and Blacks are being targeted for the blame game. Rather than be upset at the phantom African-American menace, fight like hell. There is no right wing black conspiracy against gay Americans.  When you tried to align your struggle with that of Blacks you inherited their enemies. These same enemies are now trying to pit one against the other because they fear the combined numbers of both.

How many gay activists supported the civil rights movement in the 1960’s?  Then how do you automatically expect support in return?  Have you asked Blacks to support you or did you just assume?

No one gave Obama anything and they will not give gays anything either.  Obama stands on the shoulders of a lot of brave people who gave their lives for him to stand on that podium last night.

Never trust exits polls because in all my years of life, no one has ever been seen at a polling place asking anyone anything when they left.

Don’t fall for the lies.

Shadow_Man says: “i think it comes from the misunderstanding that being gay is a choice.”?????????????

Wouldn’t your theory equally support a need for a cure of Homosexuality? I mean if it is genetic why not have Jerry Lewis do a Telethon? Or perhaps Michael J. Fox could call for stem cell research to cure the defect. I mean of course if it is not a choice. Speaking from a Darwinist viewpoint it does have little biological value, therefore a genetic dead end and all.

Your travels down the road of “it’s not my choice” is fraught with the pitfalls of calling for a medical solution. You really want to go down that line? I would hope you had a much better argument in support of Homosexuality.

(ISBN 9780974501727), and (ISBN 0974501719). Mr. Rudov, the 2008 recipient of the National Coalition of Free Men’s “Award for Excellence In Promoting Gender Fairness In The Media,” is a regular guest on Fox News Channel’s Your World with Neil Cavuto and The O’Reilly Factor.